Comments on: Oh, white people http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/ These are the ramblings of a young married couple in the great City of Chicago. Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:51:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Joscelynn Tomaw http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1248 Joscelynn Tomaw Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:49:18 +0000 http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1248 Nowhere have I said that a job description provides all the information I could ever want to know about a person. The point is that saying "I work for a non-profit" is as vague as saying "I work for a company," which would be a strange answer to give someone asking what you do for a living, no? Saying "Doctor" or "Lawyer" may not be entirely descriptive either, but it gives me something to run with. If you're saying "I work for a non-profit" because you want people to know that you don't particularly value material wealth or you want to be viewed as a giving person, then you're missing the mark. Per Jacob's comment, he worked for a non-profit that was in no way any kind of charitable organization and he made quite a nice salary working there. "Non-profit" is a tax designation, not a functioning mission statement. That said, thank you, John, for providing us insight into the world of non-profit generally and the Peace Corps specifically. Nowhere have I said that a job description provides all the information I could ever want to know about a person. The point is that saying “I work for a non-profit” is as vague as saying “I work for a company,” which would be a strange answer to give someone asking what you do for a living, no? Saying “Doctor” or “Lawyer” may not be entirely descriptive either, but it gives me something to run with. If you’re saying “I work for a non-profit” because you want people to know that you don’t particularly value material wealth or you want to be viewed as a giving person, then you’re missing the mark. Per Jacob’s comment, he worked for a non-profit that was in no way any kind of charitable organization and he made quite a nice salary working there. “Non-profit” is a tax designation, not a functioning mission statement.

That said, thank you, John, for providing us insight into the world of non-profit generally and the Peace Corps specifically.

]]> By: John J http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1246 John J Tue, 08 Apr 2008 03:59:11 +0000 http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1246 It took me a few days, but I finally came up with the examples that had been way out in the back of my mind of more highly paid people who say their occupations just as uselessly: doctors, lawyers, and consultants. Given the diversification of the fields of medicine and law, saying simply "I'm a doctor" really is more a proclamation of a status than an explanation of what the person actually does. Even so, I expect the average person less likely to look askance at such a statement (though of course you two are inquisitive and kind, and would surely follow up with asking about the kind of medicine the person practices). The true problem with titles in nonprofit organizations is that they're oftentimes not consistent or even inherently aimed at accuracy so much as intended just to sound good. I once interned at a place where the three employees were the Executive Director, the Director of Volunteers, and the Volunteer Coordinator. With 3.5 employees, everyone clearly had to do far more work than you would guess from the titles. Meanwhile, with my last job before joining the Peace Corps, the person who had my job before me and the person who had it after me each had different titles, both from me as well as each other. In all fairness to my boss, she was trying to make the titles at the organization more accurate AND more consistent across the organization, so I don't fault her for the latter change. And I still ask you guys, since you get my (increasingly less) regular e-mails about what I'm doing, would you really have imagined my actual work based on the simple statement that I'm a Peace Corps Volunteer? It took me a few days, but I finally came up with the examples that had been way out in the back of my mind of more highly paid people who say their occupations just as uselessly: doctors, lawyers, and consultants. Given the diversification of the fields of medicine and law, saying simply “I’m a doctor” really is more a proclamation of a status than an explanation of what the person actually does. Even so, I expect the average person less likely to look askance at such a statement (though of course you two are inquisitive and kind, and would surely follow up with asking about the kind of medicine the person practices).

The true problem with titles in nonprofit organizations is that they’re oftentimes not consistent or even inherently aimed at accuracy so much as intended just to sound good. I once interned at a place where the three employees were the Executive Director, the Director of Volunteers, and the Volunteer Coordinator. With 3.5 employees, everyone clearly had to do far more work than you would guess from the titles.

Meanwhile, with my last job before joining the Peace Corps, the person who had my job before me and the person who had it after me each had different titles, both from me as well as each other. In all fairness to my boss, she was trying to make the titles at the organization more accurate AND more consistent across the organization, so I don’t fault her for the latter change.

And I still ask you guys, since you get my (increasingly less) regular e-mails about what I’m doing, would you really have imagined my actual work based on the simple statement that I’m a Peace Corps Volunteer?

]]> By: Jacob Tomaw http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1235 Jacob Tomaw Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:37:23 +0000 http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1235 I think the point is that is no one would ever say "I work for a for-profit." or "I work for a company." These expression would not convey any knowledge; they do not say anything. As our mothers told us, if you have nothing to say, don't say anything at all. If you say "I work for a non-profit." The only things I know about you is that you likely have a 403(b), not a 401(k) and you think the tax filing status of you employer is the most important part of your job. Before I started at Orbitz, I worked for a non-profit. I never told people I worked for a non-profit, because that is not important to me. Now that I work at Orbitz, I tell people I am a "Sr. Software Engineer at Orbitz." My title is important to me, but working for a known and well regarded firm is also important to me. This is important to me because I have spent a lot of time, money, and effort to achieve what I have achieved. When I tell people this, I do not expect them to think, "Oh, Jacob is upper-middle class.", I want them to think, "Jacob is a hard worker, who follows through, cares about things, and can be trusted." If the work your non-profit is doing is important, I think you are selling them short. If your non-profit is not well known, wouldn't they like the free advertisement from employees? If they are a charity, wouldn't saying "I work for a charity", convey more information without making the fact that you firm does not make money the most important part? What would be the objection to this conversation: Me: "Hi, James is it? What do you do for a living?" James: "I am Associate Widget Foobracker for WidIntCo." Me: "Wow, that is a mouthful and I have no idea what that means. Hehe. "What is WidIntCo?" James: "It is Widget International Co-op, a non-profit charity that refoobrackates widget so at-risk inter-city children can barnisize safely." Me: "Oh that is good. Widgets are important and need to be safe. I did not know Widgets could be foobrackated let alone REfoobracated! Tell me more...." I think the point is that is no one would ever say “I work for a for-profit.” or “I work for a company.” These expression would not convey any knowledge; they do not say anything. As our mothers told us, if you have nothing to say, don’t say anything at all.

If you say “I work for a non-profit.” The only things I know about you is that you likely have a 403(b), not a 401(k) and you think the tax filing status of you employer is the most important part of your job.

Before I started at Orbitz, I worked for a non-profit. I never told people I worked for a non-profit, because that is not important to me. Now that I work at Orbitz, I tell people I am a “Sr. Software Engineer at Orbitz.” My title is important to me, but working for a known and well regarded firm is also important to me. This is important to me because I have spent a lot of time, money, and effort to achieve what I have achieved. When I tell people this, I do not expect them to think, “Oh, Jacob is upper-middle class.”, I want them to think, “Jacob is a hard worker, who follows through, cares about things, and can be trusted.”

If the work your non-profit is doing is important, I think you are selling them short. If your non-profit is not well known, wouldn’t they like the free advertisement from employees? If they are a charity, wouldn’t saying “I work for a charity”, convey more information without making the fact that you firm does not make money the most important part?

What would be the objection to this conversation:
Me: “Hi, James is it? What do you do for a living?”
James: “I am Associate Widget Foobracker for WidIntCo.”
Me: “Wow, that is a mouthful and I have no idea what that means. Hehe. “What is WidIntCo?”
James: “It is Widget International Co-op, a non-profit charity that refoobrackates widget so at-risk inter-city children can barnisize safely.”
Me: “Oh that is good. Widgets are important and need to be safe. I did not know Widgets could be foobrackated let alone REfoobracated! Tell me more….”

]]> By: Joscelynn Tomaw http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1234 Joscelynn Tomaw Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:05:57 +0000 http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1234 Either I'm naive or I just don't encounter that many people with social status hang-ups, so I hadn't thought of it quite like that, John. But, yes, Peace Corps volunteer tells me infinitely more about what you do than 'work for non-profit'. :) Either I’m naive or I just don’t encounter that many people with social status hang-ups, so I hadn’t thought of it quite like that, John. But, yes, Peace Corps volunteer tells me infinitely more about what you do than ‘work for non-profit’. :)

]]> By: John J http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1233 John J Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:57:43 +0000 http://theflatironlife.com/2008/04/04/822/#comment-1233 To be fair, even if someone gives you their job title AND company name, you can still oftentimes not know what it is they do, unless you already happen to be aware of the field. But I generally found that saying I was a nonprofit worker was a good way of gaging the person's level of interest. If I was being asked as a means of discovering social rank, then the inquirer has his answer right away. If he really wants to know my job, however, he can always ask follow-up questions. But there's no need to force the first person to listen through the paragraph-long explanation of my ridiculously long title, ridiculous long nonprofit name, and far longer explanation of what the nonprofit actually does (something which is not, as a rule, obvious from the name). And now I'm a Peace Corps volunteer (title and employer, with a fairly well-known organizational status). Does that tell you what I really do? To be fair, even if someone gives you their job title AND company name, you can still oftentimes not know what it is they do, unless you already happen to be aware of the field. But I generally found that saying I was a nonprofit worker was a good way of gaging the person’s level of interest. If I was being asked as a means of discovering social rank, then the inquirer has his answer right away. If he really wants to know my job, however, he can always ask follow-up questions. But there’s no need to force the first person to listen through the paragraph-long explanation of my ridiculously long title, ridiculous long nonprofit name, and far longer explanation of what the nonprofit actually does (something which is not, as a rule, obvious from the name).

And now I’m a Peace Corps volunteer (title and employer, with a fairly well-known organizational status). Does that tell you what I really do?

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